We were sold a false bill of goods and then got blamed for it.
The money I spent on my education could have bought the roof, a ton of bootstraps to pull up, but probably not the electricity. :(
I’m just saying if mortgages were treated like student loans we’d actually be in a better place as a society.
Students would love this, you’d be able to discharge the debt via bankruptcy!
Banks would fucking love this. They would be salivating at the idea that home loans can’t be discharged via bankruptcy.
You got so woke since going to college!
If somehow I was able to purchase a house where I live (was never possible), it would have gone up in value more then the money I have been earning working my jobs.
I love taking my twice graduated college educated ass to job postings for my field and being offered $60k CAD for highly skilled work that requires both a bachelor’s and about 5-10 years of experience to pay for my $40-50k worth of education. It’s great!
I’ve been in the job market for a while and apart from not having a bachelors degree, I have most of the certifications and experience needed. But I did the math, I am unable to afford my bills (excluding things like fuel for my car and food for the table) on anything less than around $65-70k. I don’t ask for much for everything else, but I generally need at least $75k a year to survive without starving or going bankrupt.
Life is expensive and it keeps getting more expensive, but the wages I saw posted over 10 years ago when I graduated, are the same wages I see now for the same or similar work. Since the cost of everything has increased significantly over that time, I just move on to other job postings.
Don’t mention salary in the post? I’m not interested. Don’t have an option for full time remote? No thanks. I don’t want to spend hours of my life every week in traffic, spending hundreds of dollars a month on fuel, just so you can look me in the face and say “you look tired”… Yeah, because I’m forced to be here and I’m not able to do this work from home.
What is the difference if I go to the office and use these online/cloud tools, versus doing the same from home? I don’t understand.
What is the difference if I go to the office and use these online/cloud tools, versus doing the same from home?
Control.
Exactly. It’s basically “tell me you don’t trust me as an employee, without telling me you don’t trust me as an employee”.
Americans are the poorest people I know with the most disposable income that seems to buy them nothing.
Come to Europe. You will be poorer and somewhat miserable, instead of regular poor and stressed.
I’m not sure that sounds much better lmao
The misery is the other Europeans telling us to stop smiling so much lol
As a corollary, go to college for something commercially viable. If your degree is in medieval Estonian poetry, you are going to have a hard time getting a job with that that pays off the debt. Recent history aside, there were very few people who went into things like electrical engineering or medical science that could not find employment.
That is so out of touch that I feel like I am having a stroke.
There is a lot of qualified people with “commercially viable” degrees that can’t find a job, or the job they find pay like shit.
Companies want over qualified people for shit pay, and they want you to go through 5 interviews because that’s what the cool companies do, and get offended when their ridiculous offer gets rightly rejected.
The over-gay is sadly true 😢
I went to trade school after college. Now I get my hands dirty for work and out-earn all my higher educated friends - except the ones who also work in trades. I also don’t need to worry about AI taking my job.
I’m sure you don’t need me to tell you this but it isn’t all rainbows and sunshine in the trades either, especially for the self employed.
When you’re young it’s fine but as you get older your body starts to wear out and dragging water heaters out of some crawlspace or running wire in a non air conditioned attic becomes harder.
Still, sitting for 8 hours a day a desk can be bad for you too I guess. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
Tell me about it. I barely made it to 30 before I washed out of the film industry due to back and foot issues.
It’s pretty easy to extrapolate this to the whole concept of a full-time job being bad for you. It’s not whether you’re wearing out your body or your mind more, it’s that modern life requires you to wear yourself out just to survive.
Our ancestors fought hard for the 40 hour workday not realizing we were just deciding the dimensions of our cage.
To be clear I am not mad at them or blame them. But it’s still true.
I absolutely love the metaphor and it succinctly express the class issue.
Because mechanization will.
mechanization may not but venture capital corporationism might.
Someone will “invent” Uber for plumbers and gardeners and now the trades all work for $4/day while the CEO graciously only accepts a $200,000,000 bonus that year.
I highly doubt that will happen during my lifetime.
I applaud your enthusiasm but stay vigilant, companies opting for AI are we less about “they can do my job better than me” and more just another tool to opress the working class.
I say this as someone who works in the film industry, who’s job right out of college is currently being replaced by AI. Soon much more than you think could be replaced, will be too.
Well, luckily I’m self-employed and I believe that even if there was robots doing the kind of manual labor that I do there would still be enough people left who’d rather hire a human. Time will tell I guess.
Nope. Turns out robots are expensive and break down frequently.
A 100k boston dynamic that works from morning until evening without breaks is hell of a lot cheaper than paying a lazy sack of meat 50k year.
too real for me
The extra kick in the teeth is for those that for whatever reason couldn’t/didn’t go to college! All that messaging of “go to college or you’re going to be worthless” just so happens to have the affect of making you feel completely worthless for not having a degree! All those years on online dating I’d pass on people that were educated and/or had good jobs because “why the hell would they be interested in a worthless uneducated factory worker.” It’s fun!
I have no debt, nor a house though, but I do have tons and tons of depression and self loathing!
I too am exactly like you except I own a few homes.
I decided to pretend to go to college in a different country. Seems to be working fine for my career since I started doing that. It didn’t fix the self loathing tho.
“You have your own head to think, why did you listen to me?”
Yeah, you have a college degree, you should be able to make smart life choices.
Don’t forget that most highschools also dropped any trades oriented classes too. So now if you want a decently paying career without a college degree then too fucking bad. They’re trying to eliminate any alternative to the college debt shackle to make their worker drones more easy to manipulate and abuse.
college debt shackle to make their worker drones more easy to manipulate and abuse.
They have a better one now. H1-Bs. Do what the boss says or you get fucking deported.
Are tech schools still a thing?
The tech schools from my area offered trade focused education paths like plumbing, drafting, auto, hairdressing, and few others.
So you could basically go to them, skip college, and go right into a trade.
I know quite a few people who did that and they seem to be doing okay now.
Not sure, but shop classes, carpentry, electrical/plumbing, mechanic, and those such classes were being cut when I was in highschool back in the mid 2000s. I think classes like that are usually what would open kids up to seeing that they may enjoy those trades.
I remember having all that in elementary school when I lived in New Jersey. Moved down to Texas and people looked at me like I was crazy when I explained we were using power tools and kilns and computers in 3rd grade.
Oh no! You don’t get to go anything like that until high school! And this was in one of the wealthier suburbs.
Parents and school boards simply did not want to spend anything close to that kind of money to educate their kids.
We had a little of it in 5th/6th grade in Texas when I was in school, however absolutely nothing in High School, I did have a game dev class hosted by a coach who barely knew how to work a computer. Definitely didn’t just play games during that whole class or anything.
So now if you want a decently paying career without a college degree then too fucking bad.
Go through college, fuck it up.
Go to job center.
“We want this specific blue collar job”
How do I get it
“Know the union guy or pay for a certification course”
Thanks fuckhead
Yeah, you basically need to luck into being hired at a place that’s desperate enough to hire and attempt to train anyone off the street.
As far as the certs go though, at least in the US, most of the 100% legally required certs are pretty easy to get. Our regulators have been so defunded that there is very little effort put into beefing up the requirements. One example is that I’m in HVAC and that means I need my EPA 608 cert to handle refrigerants. I self studied with free online resources for less than a week, paid $80 for an online test, and got my 608 universal cert without issue. It’s actually kinda scary how easy it is to get some of the certifications required to do jobs that have pretty major consequences if you screw them up. The only trade that seems to still have fairly strict requirements as far as training goes is electricians and that seems to be largely due to the unions enforcing it.
You should see how little training I was given to literally apply poison in homes and schools as a pest management professional.
You’re not wrong about schools, but also it’s not hard to get into the trades. I’m in the trucking industry so easiest example for me, but any of the big trucking companies will (usually) train you with the only cost being to work for them for a set period of time. Others will reimburse your trucking school costs. I make $70k. Could make more, but I like sleeping at home.
My father in law was a Boilermaker and the union offered on the job training. He was making in the $100k+ range before he passed.
May not be able to get a head start in the trades while in high school anymore, but it’s not difficult to join them. All of the trades are short on bodies to do the work, and as a result, are often quite happy to teach you.
Part of the issue though, and the reason trades are currently so desperate for people, is that it’s never even presented as an option to kids anymore. With most trades you’re going to get far more out of on the job training than you would with formal education anyways. But people need to know that it’s an option. The classes aren’t so much about giving kids a head start but rather about presenting them with the option and letting them see if it would be something they enjoy and could do.
I was lucky in highschool, we still had shop classes and a couple teachers that were passionate about the trades. It was presented as an option. But even then it was presented as an option for losers and outcasts. It was presented as something for those people who were too dumb or broke to go to college like a “normal” person. My dad was a tradesman so I personally knew that wasn’t actually the case but many kids don’t have that and go through school seeing trades as being something you do if you fail.
Like you said, you can get into most of trades fairly easily if you just apply at one of the places desperate enough to try training anyone off the street, which is most of them now a days. But people have to actually apply for those jobs. Right now our highschools not only don’t present them as a realistic option, but they are actively hostile towards anything that isn’t college orriented.
But even then it was presented as an option for losers and outcasts. It was presented as something for those people who were too dumb or broke to go to college like a “normal” person.
At the same time as kids were told “go to college or you won’t have a job”, back in the 90s/00s, lots of industrial jobs were either being shipped overseas or swamped with visa workers and gray market migrant laborers.
Pay in fields like construction, plumbing, and HVAC took a huge hit. So did a bunch of back office IT and accounting work. Pure race to the bottom as businesses consolidated and cartelized hiring rates.
Of course, the same thing was happening in professional management and technical careers. But it’s less obvious you’re getting screwed as a Developer earning $60/hr when your parents earned $120, than as a carpenter earning $25/hr when your parents would have earned closer to $80.
If my school system was typical, and I have no reason to believe it wasn’t, what happened was that individual high schools dropped their trades oriented classes but the school system opened a dedicated vocational/“tech” high school. That means in order to take any such classes you’d have to completely switch schools, or at least drive there halfway through the school day or something. So, on top of having to arrange your own transportation instead of taking the school bus, you’d probably also have schedule conflicts and be forced to choose between the vocational classes and things like gifted/AP academic classes. And finally, you would also be disincentivized against that (at least in my social circle) by the stigma that only the stupid kids who couldn’t hack the normal curriculum, troublemakers, and teen moms would go to an ‘alternative’ school (which was wrong in retrospect, of course, but the key phrase is “in retrospect”).
To add insult to injury, my AP physics class was held in the classroom that used to be for the school’s shop class. In addition to a whole bunch of intriguing CNC equipment and other neat science/engineering doodads scattered around the back and sides of the classroom, there was a huge attached storage room that had all the traditional woodworking power tools. And we never had the opportunity to use fucking any of it!
My school never split off trades classes into their own school. They just stopped hiring teachers for those classes.
But also, yeah I feel your second point. My old highschool still has an entire wing of the building filled with a full machining shop, a very well stocked wood shop, a CAD lab, and an automotive shop which all sit there entirely unused. They didn’t even sell the machines off or move them. They just shut the lights off and stopped using those rooms.
I wonder if it’s really hard to recruit shop teachers now. If the trades are so desperate for people, would it be more lucrative to go into the trades or teach at a school. Also I think most states require a college degree plus credentials to teach at all. So if you worked in the trades until you’re 50 and then wanted to go into teaching, it’s like 5 years of schooling before you can do that. Schools have a lot of trouble getting and retaining male teachers at all at this point and I wonder if that contributes too. If you don’t see male teachers and there’s a stigma attached to men wanting to work with kids, it isn’t going to be something boys aspire to.
I had no postsecondary interests, but my parents were the embodiment of this, yep yep.
Turns out taking random subjects you have no interest in doesn’t result in success. Crazy. What did I want to do? Nothing. Still don’t. Unioned Plant Operator it is.
Luckily that was in 2010 Canada. Wasn’t much debt, just a waste of 3 years.
I made the mistake of having avocado toast once and now I’ll never be able to financially recover.
sucks to suck, I’ve lived in a shoebox eating dirt for 40 years and I’ll probably own my shoebox one day.
Wow, that’s the dream partner
I actually had avocado toast at a breakfast restaurant once. That shit was amazing. And $18. I finally understand the hype.
Lol same… I’ve had it once and it was awesome.
Still paying off the interest…
Very easy to make. Use good toasted bread, rub one clove of raw garlic on the bread, then use half an avocado per slice, spread liberally. Top with some salt and pepper and serve.
Yeah, it’s not even really a “luxury” food unless you are buying it at a brunch restaurant. Less than $5.
I’m so rarely in the mood for avocado that it usually goes to waste when I buy any. Love putting Tabasco in the cavity left by the pit, and eating with a spoon.
This place served it lightly smashed with diced red onions and sea salt, with tomato slices on top. Would have loved some crushed garlic mixed in but honestly it didn’t need any.
What shall we light on fire first? Or who?
