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Weird… as a cis heterosexual white male, I don’t find myself hanging around people that I need to censor or correct at all. I’ve proactively cut all of those people out of my life within the past 8 years. My friends are the folks you don’t need to tell stuff like this to.
I will say, in the process of removing people that were awful, they tend to just laugh when they are “corrected,” as they find amusement in the antagonization. Once you separate yourself from them, it’s just 2-3 confused text messages and that’s the end of it.
I do (cuz family). Calling them out like this is one of my favorite pastimes since they think I’m 100% with them. Stopping them in their tracks can be really entertaining
My family is conservative and I’m still dependant on them for healthcare, so calling them out usually isn’t worth it although sometimes I still do.
Please do what’s safest for you! The family I mentioned is actually my cousins’ in-laws, so there’s no real consequence
Not saying cutting people out is wrong, you do you. But don’t you think all of this alienation we are collectively doing is leading to the echo chambers that reinforce bad behaviors?
I do, but I don’t want to be around those people. I don’t think being around them (and trying to influence) changes anything for the better either.
I can only control my own behavior. I cannot force another to change, they have to want to. The only thing I can do is draw the lines I’m willing to live within and live by them. And if not associating with bad people, even if they are family, is what I need to live in a healthy way, so be it.
I hear you, but idk what to do. I can’t engage with someone who says out loud things like “I want trump to become a dictator” and “democracy is overrated” and “your body my choice” and don’t seem to care at all that mass deporting 10+million people WILL lead to mass murder. It’s impossible to have a discussion in good faith with these people. They’ve just demonstrated that the last 8-9 years is a feature, not a bug, and let the mask off about who they really are. They’ve alienated themselves by leaving the realm of reality.
I’m not really sure. One of the most common complaints among the less extreme portions of the right is that the left is too intolerant and strict and not fun to be around. And being more welcoming of the person themselves, even while acknowledging to yourself that their beliefs are severely flawed (possibly due to factors such as propaganda, peer pressure, religious beliefs), might be a way to help capture that crowd and work to win them over.
At the same time, there needs to be a line drawn somewhere where the person is clearly being malicious and possibly dangerous and is a lost cause. Stuff like “your body my choice”, using slurs, praising suicides of marginalized people, etc isn’t worth tolerating. Also when it comes to group activities, allowing these sort of people and ideas makes minorities uncomfortable, so when they leave to someplace more comfortable now your group is just full of Nazis. I seen no problem with cutting these sort of people out.
They think this is a culture war. They believe they are at war with ideas they do not like.
They will not give ground until forced to do so. They will only do so begrudgingly, and insincerely, waiting for the day they can claw it back.
They see you as an enemy, and they give themselves rage chubbies at the thought of refusing to negotiate.
Absolutely, if you hear this nonsense, call it out, but be prepared for it to escalate.
Let’s return to a time when saying that crap out loud was enough to end a career. Make them afraid to be bigoted in public again.
“I won’t let you talk to them that way” is a bad one that doesn’t belong on this list. It implies you’re in control of them, which you’re not. It’s essentially a bluff, and if they call it, you need to be able to beat them up.
To add more good phrases to this list, the phrases need to imply that the person still has their own agency (because they do), and that it’s just a dipshit way to use that agency. The other phrases are great.
Nah, there’s nothing louder than silence.
Wipe all expression from your face, and stare at them. Maybe just an expression of incredulity if this is out of character for them. That’s all it takes.
Bystanders will literally stop what they’re doing and watch. Their brains will scream “I’m about to be excluded from the group”, and they’ll start babbling. They’ll confess their sins and be harsher on themselves than anything you could say
If you don’t like their next words, give them nothing. Literally don’t respond, anything you give them is closure. Don’t give them closure, move on with your life - they can’t.
Don’t give them judgement, give them nothing. If you judge them, they can turn themselves into a victim or you into an enemy… Without a response, the only enemy is themselves, because they will crave your approval.
It’s like a teacher staring down a student who keeps talking until the whole class is looking at them, except they don’t know what to do to make it stop. So they try anything and wrack their brain for a solution. It seriously freaks people out
Note: this is less likely to work against neurodivergent people, they’ll just be confused. That’s how I learned to do this - I got annoyed and straight up asked a therapist why they kept staring at me when I was done talking. They explained the concept of a pregnant pause, and so I started using it.
And acquaintances started telling me how they were abused to explain their behavior and strangers started confessing how they cheated on their partners out of nowhere.
I get a lot of long apology emails the day after someone wrongs me, I now make an effort to give closure to everyone I like early and often.
Humans are tortured by this
I’m mostly onboard here, but there’s some nuance to consider.
Wipe all expression from your face, and stare at them. […] Bystanders will literally stop what they’re doing and watch.
Fact. Monkey see, monkey do. If you physically pass as someone older and wiser, this works even better.
Their brains will scream “I’m about to be excluded from the group”, and they’ll start babbling. They’ll confess their sins and be harsher on themselves than anything you could say
Plausible, but I think this outcome is one of many possible. Pressing on an individual’s psychological weak-spots can trigger a fight/flight/freeze/fawn reflex; your anecdotes are centered on the “fawn” response. I would caution the reader that, unless you know that person well, you really can’t predict which of the four you will get in this situation. If doing this you MUST be prepared for that fight reflex to kick in; they may get mouthy and/or physical. Social justice is important, but do take your opponent’s height, weight, build, and if they are armed into account, before proceeding.
Nah, that’s the beauty of it. You’re not the enemy. You’re not attacking them. You’re giving them absolute attention, but giving nothing back
It’s pure judgement. And they don’t know the verdict yet
Their fight response won’t be aimed at you, but they’ll certainly throw others under the bus. They might lash out at you, but they’ll quickly wilt when you still give with nothing. It’s just angry human noises, ignore them
Their flight response won’t kick in, because it overrides human instincts. Walking away is a conscious decision in this case, and most humans aren’t self aware enough to choose it
It’s the third path. You take all the power in the interaction, you cut off the other roads, and you engineer a choice that is only fawn or slink away quietly in defeat
Ah, so that’s the key. I’m not eager to try this, but I’ll absolutely keep it in mind should I need it. Thank you.
You’re very welcome, this is exactly the kind of tool I want to put in the right hands
But I do hope you don’t need it, so there’s also variants I hope you will use
The pregnant pause is the version I derived it from - instead of blanking your body language, you project encouragement and full attention. It makes people feel awkward, but it gives them the urge to keep talking to fill the silence
It’s a therapy tool, but great for any kind of teaching - for example, I have a friend with bad imposter syndrome who I’ve been mentoring in software development for the last few years. When I help him, he has a bad habit of shutting off his brain and second guessing himself. I’ve been telling him for a decade he has an aptitude for it, but all he saw was how I could glance at his code and zero in on the problem… But I’ve been doing this for almost 2 decades and I also have an aptitude for it, and no matter how much I tell him “it’s just experience, and you’re genuinely good at this” or “I only know because I’ve been in your situation before” he would shut down
So I’d hit him with the pregnant pause after asking a leading question to get him thinking along the correct lines. Sometimes he’s already too frazzled to think and I’ll just tell him the answer before it drags on uncomfortably long and he feels stupid, but usually he knows and I’ll give him validation before expanding on the topic
Last week, he called me to tell me he did the same thing for someone else. The week before, someone accused him of causing a bug and he stood his ground without rereading his code (correctly). He regularly calls me to tell me about a lesson of mine that has helped him, and more and more I have nothing more to add, I’m looking forward to the day when he pushes back against me
The key here is lack of judgement - you have to find a reason to give them validation immediately. From there you can break it down or correct them, but they need to feel good at the moment you give your verdict, even if what they said is wrong. Only then you correct them or expound on the topic
It’s good for any time you want to get someone talking or make them feel awkward - you can use it for jokes, teaching, or encouraging them to get something off their chest. So long as you do it right, it builds trust and deepens relationships - and again, the important bit is they must walk away feeling like you didn’t judge them when they opened up
Just be sure you want that deeper relationship with that person - everyone has horrible intrusive thoughts sometimes, and if you don’t fully believe in their fundamental goodness you might end up hearing things you aren’t equipped to deal with
Despite being LGBT+ that friend repeats shit blasted at him from far right social media, and I know he’s not that person so I help him unpack it and get to the core truths behind it (and he’s come a long way). I know my sister and closest brother are very empathic people, so when they say shit out of left field I know to break it down instead of taking it at face value
People often don’t know what they’re saying, because propaganda works - if you encourage people to open up to you unfiltered, you’ll cut deep if you don’t come from a place of understanding. But there’s great power there - people will tell you exactly what’s going on with them, and they’ll listen when you dive into it
ITT: a lot of people reading this to be specifically and only for cis white men, but they’re talking about the power any in-group member has to shut down bigoted shit and that’s what we should be focusing on. In a space where the biggest in-group is black women this post would be about them, but the most common “in-group” (disproportionately so) is white cis men so that’s who they mention. If this is making you feel attacked or targeted then please set aside that part of it and don’t discard the actual message, because this is honestly something everyone should think about.
Anytime you’re accepted somewhere, whether in public or among strangers, you have a lot of social power when it comes to setting the tone of conversation - one loud idiot can make a space feel extremely hostile to an outsider, and if everybody gives a polite laugh instead of speaking up that idiot learns saying things like that is okay and the “outsider” learns they’re not truly welcome. Literally one person who speaks up instead of letting it fly can solve this - the message is to be that person, not to attack anyone in particular.
If this is making you feel attacked or targeted
As a “cis het white man”, I wouldn’t dream to feel attacked by this and find it mind-boggling how anyone could be so fucking braindead and/or tone-deaf that they would feel attacked. But here we are, in a world where there is a “soon to be Nazi-America” where there was once the united states of America.
Look at you, with the hemispheres of your brain actually somewhat separate from one another.
It’s really refreshing to have someone actually get the meaning behind this meme instead of say ‘not all men’ or the equivalent.
I want to know why you, and so many others apparently, cannot grasp the idea of pointing out why one aspect of something is problematic without, by default, being an implication that the entire thing is wrong or that they hate all of it etc etc.
I’m not even offended by it, but I get why someone would be, but that doesn’t take away from the point of the post either. It’s really fucking weird and feels intellectually dishonest.
“What the fuck” with a disgusted look is my go to.
The “do you hear yourself right now?” is a good one, gonna use it well
This is legit why I have like two male friends left tbh. After 2016 I stopped giving a fuck. The problem… or maybe the cause in a way… is that I’m an oddly assertive introvert so it’s very easy for me to end up in a situation where I’m doing nothing but going off on people and making drama.
Oh hey it’s that mean voice in my head
Telling a dude to shut the fuck up works in any context. I yell it at strangers all the time
I usually ask what the hell it even matters to them and I usually get the Republican talking points. They’re not going to change their minds because you shame them. Haters gonna hate. It’s a shame but humans have a very long history of hating those that are not like them. Keep trying though, you never know…
There’s real value in just letting them know you won’t tolerate that bullshit in your presence. It means you’ll hear less of it, for one, and it may actually affect their thinking depending on how they feel about you, and whether they have never received any push back previously.
As soon as you van stop using weird vocabulary as “cis man”, i would start thinking about saying any of that.
Yes, there is a lotmof right wing bullshit going on but this entire Snowflake “Im special so we need to change language” is in large part what has pushed so many people to trump yo begin with.
To out it simple: you’re part of the problem. Fix yourself too
What a weird thing to say.
Do you have the same problem with all adjectives that describe a majority? Heterosexual, right-handed, etc.?
Do you hear yourself right now?
Yes everyone would be cool with trans people and not bigots if only they didn’t use silly little acronyms
It isn’t an acronym.
CIS isn’t an acronym? What? (Non-native)
An acronym is a word which is formed by the first letters of a name for something, such as “laser” (Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation) or “radar” (RAdio Detecting And Ranging).
“Cis” isn’t that. It’s a Latin word which is the opposite of “trans”.
I thought it was one… something like child identified sex but I stand corrected it’s not that at all… thanks
Ah, I didn’t appeal to the right wing voter base, what a shame.
I see we’re in the “Trump was elected because of political correctness” phase. I remember this from 2015.
start with coherent messaging, which means you need to define terms as you use them
As someone “on the right” this is actually good advice for the future. The left’s obsession with victimhood and the orwellian nomenclature for “identity” is tiresome to the average person.
“Cishet”, for example, is basically a pejorative for “normal person”.
word to the wise, don’t do this if you don’t have the physicality to back it up
That sounds like a threat?
I’m Ron Burgundy?
Yes. We cis men know nothing of criticizing our friends, and need instruction in this.
As a gay guy who’s definitely been in the room for gay jokes because they didn’t know I was gay: yes, you do. If you are only willing to call out bad behavior when you may get caught associating with it, then you aren’t actually an ally.
Shuddap you privileged rapist, I’m telling the bears!
Fuck being a better ally. This is some dystopian mindfuck right here.
I don’t mind most marine mammals. But sea lions? I could do without sea lions.
I would like to extend some but not all of these responses to situations like but not limited to:
- X Should be the first ones to be shot.
- They’re gonna make everything better.
- These people always think that Y.
- …
