Ooh boy, it’s time to link to my favorite “I did a lot of work and no one responded” pair of posts, with a deep dive into how the NIH and other offices’ claims about nicotine are utter bullshit and a great example of the failures of the modern scientific apparatus: https://lemmy.world/post/16434400/10677530
My favorite parts:
There’s stuff like this heart.org result, which exclusively talk about “smoking and nicotine”. These types of articles are dangerous in and of themselves because they require a level of critical thinking to separate out “smoking” and “nicotine”. A lot of anti-vaping hit pieces have a top-level title talking about nicotine, but then the body of the article references negative effects that are exclusive to smoking. Here’s one such hit piece, run by a dystopian-sounding group called the “Truth Initiative” which should immediately make anyone suspicious of their goals. Note the article is under topic “harmful effects of tobacco”, subtopic “nicotine addiction”.
So like, they took the high end of that study they referenced, increased it a little, used that as the low end of their study, made their high end 4 times that, and then gave that amount to a fucking mouse injected with a human tumor. And then did it again, 5 more times a day. And then said that “mimicked the daily intakes of cigarettes in smokers”. HAH.
Side note: see how incestuous this all is? We have a study of studies (NIH) referencing a study of studies (Jensen) referencing a study of studies (Chowdhury), referencing…nothing at all.
I think we see the real problem here - you are addicted and aggressive because you are going through withdrawal. Also a bit of Dunning-Krueger - guess you are an undergraduate engineering student with no training in medicine or statistics.
Vapes saved me from an early death due to smoking and it bothers me on a personal level when people spout falsehoods about them. And on a civic level when those people are government officials.
People are not “spouting falsehoods.” Read the studies I linked. You weren’t impressed with meta-analysis you found, the studies I show described their methodologies in detail.
Vaping may be better than smoking, but it is not good for you. Nicotine is harmful. Aerosols in your lungs are harmful. These are not really things you can argue with.
You can argue that it is less harmful (which I would agree that the lower temperature and lack of burning plant matter is probably a good thing), but arguing that it is not harmful at all is solidly pseudoscience.
Arguing that there is a conspiracy between the government and scientific researchers to pretend that nicotine is harmful is getting into Qanon territory.
I worked in a middle school, and this kind of “vape is harmless” rhetoric is literally killing children. And yes - middle schoolers are probably getting sketchy carts from China - but a lot of them are hurt by the idea that vape is perfectly safe. (Friend helped on a school district lawsuit against Juul)
Remember how desperately the cigarette industry attacked the science behind the harm caused by smoking - the lies, the paying off doctors? I know you said you won’t click on YouTube links, but Knowing Better has a great video on that history. Do you think the people manufacturing vapes have your best interest at heart, and wouldn’t do the same?
So far, the only sketchy science I’ve seen has been people trying to claim vapes are killing our children. It’s a classic moral hysteria. Every. Single. Case. Of kids being harmed by vapes has been sketchy Chinese shit, which they wouldn’t try to get if you people weren’t so insistent on banning vapes in the US!
I’m arguing that vapes are less harmful than alcohol, fast food, or car exhaust. Less harmful than sitting at a desk all day. Less harmful than any of a thousand things people do daily. This absolute hysteria around vaping needs to end.
And it’s less a conspiracy than a social movement - if you want funding, find vapes to be harmful. If you want your career destroyed, tell the truth. I don’t think there’s a cabal of evil moustache-twirling scientists; I think there’s a very powerful social and financial incentive to come to certain conclusions.
Ooh boy, it’s time to link to my favorite “I did a lot of work and no one responded” pair of posts, with a deep dive into how the NIH and other offices’ claims about nicotine are utter bullshit and a great example of the failures of the modern scientific apparatus: https://lemmy.world/post/16434400/10677530
My favorite parts:
Yes my sweet child - that is called a meta-analysis.
Yeah no fucking shit, Sherlock
I think we see the real problem here - you are addicted and aggressive because you are going through withdrawal. Also a bit of Dunning-Krueger - guess you are an undergraduate engineering student with no training in medicine or statistics.
No withdawal - I’m vaping right now.
Vapes saved me from an early death due to smoking and it bothers me on a personal level when people spout falsehoods about them. And on a civic level when those people are government officials.
People are not “spouting falsehoods.” Read the studies I linked. You weren’t impressed with meta-analysis you found, the studies I show described their methodologies in detail.
Vaping may be better than smoking, but it is not good for you. Nicotine is harmful. Aerosols in your lungs are harmful. These are not really things you can argue with.
Sure, I agree. But it’s SO MUCH LESS than tobacco that we should not view them as in the same ballpark.
You can argue that it is less harmful (which I would agree that the lower temperature and lack of burning plant matter is probably a good thing), but arguing that it is not harmful at all is solidly pseudoscience.
Arguing that there is a conspiracy between the government and scientific researchers to pretend that nicotine is harmful is getting into Qanon territory.
I worked in a middle school, and this kind of “vape is harmless” rhetoric is literally killing children. And yes - middle schoolers are probably getting sketchy carts from China - but a lot of them are hurt by the idea that vape is perfectly safe. (Friend helped on a school district lawsuit against Juul)
CDC data from 2020:
Remember how desperately the cigarette industry attacked the science behind the harm caused by smoking - the lies, the paying off doctors? I know you said you won’t click on YouTube links, but Knowing Better has a great video on that history. Do you think the people manufacturing vapes have your best interest at heart, and wouldn’t do the same?
So far, the only sketchy science I’ve seen has been people trying to claim vapes are killing our children. It’s a classic moral hysteria. Every. Single. Case. Of kids being harmed by vapes has been sketchy Chinese shit, which they wouldn’t try to get if you people weren’t so insistent on banning vapes in the US!
I’m arguing that vapes are less harmful than alcohol, fast food, or car exhaust. Less harmful than sitting at a desk all day. Less harmful than any of a thousand things people do daily. This absolute hysteria around vaping needs to end.
And it’s less a conspiracy than a social movement - if you want funding, find vapes to be harmful. If you want your career destroyed, tell the truth. I don’t think there’s a cabal of evil moustache-twirling scientists; I think there’s a very powerful social and financial incentive to come to certain conclusions.