Ah, Linux community.

“So, you’ve got a problem where you spend a lot of effort squeezing basic functionality out of an OS? I’ve got the solution - even MORE effort!”

I think “literally” should be an exception because it’s the only word to clarify when we’re not speaking figuratively. It’s like making your safe word “fuck me harder”.

My dude, I spent my first six hours on Linux Mint trying to get my touchpad to actually work.

I only fire up my Linux dual-boot when I’m feeling bored and think “you know what my day needs? A lot more frustration.”

I read, reviewed, and linked TEN STUDIES that you refused to

Ah fuck it you’re not even listening. I don’t often use the block button, I ideologically disagree with blocking anyone who disagrees with you. So consider this an honor.

Ok, so you are just trolling. Got it. Fuck off.

Also if you plan on doing that thing where you keep narrowing and narrowing the focus of the conversation until you can do a gotcha like “aha! You said they ‘are studying’ but in fact they completed this study in the past therefore they ‘have studied’ it which makes you a liar and everything you say wrong” then that’s just trolling and there’s no point to this conversation at all.

Yes. They cited “Unpublished studies from our laboratory” which is nothing. Being charitable, they actually did all the work and then just decided for the hell of it to not publish.

As I said in my post:

Their model is convincing enough: nicotine activates certain signaling pathways which starts a cascade effect causing out of control cell proliferation (aka cancer). But the first domino in that chain is literally “trust me, bro” with no published experimental data.

A doi, an authors name, a title?

I gave all that information in the exhaustive post you didn’t read: “Nicotine as a mitogenic stimulus for pancreatic acinar cell proliferation”, Chowdhury, doi: 10.3748/wjg.v12.i46.7428

your claims

Directionally accurate but too superlative. I’d modify them to be

1. Nicotine is marginally harmful when ingested via vapes/electronic cigarettes, in the same ballpark as any number of harmful things people do daily with no furor about them, and exponentially less harmful than tobacco cigarettes.

2. There is an overwhelmingly strong financial and social motivation for scientists and governments to hide this fact. I don’t believe anyone is literally conspiring in the sense of an evil mastermind plan, just a confluence of factors that make it unfeasible to release a study with conclusions contrary to the narrative.

3. The substance exhaled is effectively just water vapor. That’s not a backtrack, that was my original claim.

Sorry, I had to take a break from Lemmy. Sometimes the stupid gets overwhelming.

Can you give specific examples of this happening?

Did you not read my two very long and detailed analyses of the various studies the NIH cited to support their vape hysteria statements? It takes a long time to go through any given study with a critical eye (you have to research the context for the data they publish) so I’d prefer not to for the grab bag of studies you linked.

If you insist, I can look over them this weekend. But the issues generally boil down to either lumping cigarettes and vapes together, or taking numbers wildly out of context to arrive at a desired conclusion. I did name and link the specific studies I already reviewed in those two comments. And yes, one of them literally cited “unpunlished private data” ie absolutely nothing, and then drew conclusions from it.

Oh jeez I’m old

Not because I was around when this stuff was invented but because I went to school way back when they actually taught you stuff, including when things were invented

The exception is my country won’t deport me to a death camp for it.

Wanna bet?

Fascism is a virus, it doesn’t contain itself to one country.

or is it?

No

Hope this helps

Christians

Do you think that Juul or Phillip Morris or whatever wouldn’t fund studies that said vape is harmless?

Absolutely! Cigarettes are the money makers. Vapes have been eating into their profits. When vapes are restricted, cigarette usage goes way up.

I’ve linked 4 or 5 studies so far which seem to indicate that nicotine has cancer promoting effects

The problem as I’ve mentioned is these studies will have titles and abstracts that say vapes are more dangerous than fentanyl, but the actual science doesn’t support that conclusion. Typically the study will show that vapes can cause cancer in some way, but completely fail to give any context for how dangerous it is in comparison with other environmental factors. In the worst case, they’ll actually cook the books with insane concentrations of nicotine or outrageous assumptions about vape use. Well I guess the worst case was that one study which literally fabricated data, but that’s an outlier.

if you actually believe the fox news ass all men are rapists line

I heard that first-hand from women on this site.

you wouldn’t argue if I said all bears are dangerous

Yeah no shit, that’s the point.

So far, the only sketchy science I’ve seen has been people trying to claim vapes are killing our children. It’s a classic moral hysteria. Every. Single. Case. Of kids being harmed by vapes has been sketchy Chinese shit, which they wouldn’t try to get if you people weren’t so insistent on banning vapes in the US!

I’m arguing that vapes are less harmful than alcohol, fast food, or car exhaust. Less harmful than sitting at a desk all day. Less harmful than any of a thousand things people do daily. This absolute hysteria around vaping needs to end.

And it’s less a conspiracy than a social movement - if you want funding, find vapes to be harmful. If you want your career destroyed, tell the truth. I don’t think there’s a cabal of evil moustache-twirling scientists; I think there’s a very powerful social and financial incentive to come to certain conclusions.

Sure, I agree. But it’s SO MUCH LESS than tobacco that we should not view them as in the same ballpark.

No withdawal - I’m vaping right now.

Vapes saved me from an early death due to smoking and it bothers me on a personal level when people spout falsehoods about them. And on a civic level when those people are government officials.

Like I said, I don’t fully buy into it, but the facts are incontrovertible and it’s a fairly compelling argument.

can you explain the concepts of p-value and statistical significance for me?

Literally irrelevant to the point I’m making.

Also, do things existing at less than 0.04 mg have no effect on the human body?

In almost every case, that’s correct.

Keep in mind that’s also the strongest measured concentration of the biggest clouds in the whole study, and that assumes instead of passively breathing in someone else’s vape cloud, they’re just breathing the whole thing right into your mouth. Realistic amounts of chemicals would be an order or two magnitude lower.