Socialism works
Examples from this post by /u/bayarea415, Stephen Gowans - Do publicly owned, planned economies work, Ian Goodrum - Socialism vs Capitalism and quality of life, and yogthos’s USSR acheivements post about the USSR specifically:
- USSR had a more nutritious diet than the US, according to the CIA. Calories consumed surpassed the US. source. Ended famines.
- Productive forces were not organized for capital gain and private enrichment; public ownership of the means of production supplanted private ownership. It was illegal to hire others and accumulate personal wealth from their labor.
- Had the 2nd fastest growing economy of the 20th century after Japan. The USSR started out at the same level of economic development and population as Brazil in 1920, which makes comparisons to the US, an already industrialized country by the 1920s, even more spectacular.
- Free Universal Health care, and most doctors per capita in the world. 42 doctors per 10k population, vs 24 in Denmark and Sweden, 19 in US.
- Had near zero unemployment, continuous economic growth for 70 straight years. The “continuous” part should make sense – the USSR was a planned, non-market economy, so market crashes á la capitalism were pretty much impossible.
- USSR moved from 58.5-hour workweeks to 41.6 hour workweeks (-0.36 h/yr) between 1913 and 1960
- USSR averaged 22 days of paid leave in 1986 while USA averaged 7.6 in 1996., 2
- In 1987, people in the USSR could retire with pension at 55 (female) and 60 (male) while receiving 50% of their wages at a at minimum. Meanwhile, in USA the average retirement age was 62-67.
- All education, including university level, free. 2
- 99% literacy.
- Saved the world from Fascism, Taking on the majority of Nazi divisions, and killing 90% of Nazi soldiers. Bore the enormous cost of blood and pain in WW2 (25M dead), with the bloodiest battles in the history of warfare.. An estimated 70% of Soviet housing was destroyed by Nazi invasion. Nazis were in retreat after the battle of Stalingrad in 1942, a full 2 years before the US landed troops in normandy.
- Doubled life expectancy. Eliminated poverty.
- Combatted sex inequality. Equal wages for men and women mandated by law, but sex inequality, although not as pronounced as under capitalism, was perpetuated in social roles. Very important lesson to learn.
- Combatted Racial inequality.
- Feudalism to space travel in 40 years. First satellite, rocket, space walk, woman, man, animal, space station, moon and mars probes.
- Soviet power production per capita in 1990 was more than the EU, Great Britain, or China’s in 2014.
- Housing was socialized by localized community organizations, and there was virtually no homelessness. Houses were often shared by two families throughout the 20s and 30s – so unlike capitalism, there were no empty houses, but the houses were very full. In the 40s there was the war, and in the 50s there were a number of orphans from the war. The mass housing projects began in the 60s, they were completed in the 70s, and by the 70s, there were homeless people, but they often had genuine issues with mental health.
- 66% of Russians polled in 2015 want the USSR back. The story is the same for all the former eastern-bloc countries: 72% of Hungarians say their country is worse off now than under communism, 57% of East Germans, 63% of Romanians, 77% of Czechs, 81% of Serbs (for Yugoslavia), 70% of Ukrainians, 60% of Bulgarians.
When it is claimed that a system works, we should ask, who it works for. Capitalism benefits a tiny number of rapacious capitalists, to the detriment of the rest of us, while Socialism works for the masses.
Now let’s take a look at what happens after the USSR collapsed, and what came with capitalist privatization:
- Life expectancy decreases by 10 years. 2. 7.7 million excess deaths in the first year. 2
- 40% of population drops into poverty.
- GDP instantly halves.
- One in ten children now live on the streets. Infant mortality increases. Was 29.3 in 2003 which is around (current) Syria and Micronesia, 7.9 in 2013. Infant mortality in USSR was 1.92, literally the lowest in the world.
- 1996 election rigged by the US, Yeltsin sends in tanks to disperse the supreme soviet.
For an overview of the soviet experiment, watch this brilliant talk by Micheal Parenti, or read his article, Left anticommunism, the unkindest cut.
Also read this great article by Stephen Gowans, Do publicly owned, planned economies work?. Audio on youtube
The most intriguing of these is Ukraine with 2nd highest “communist notalgia” fondness. The survey was done in 2013. You may be aware of a drama thread against you posted yesterday where US nazi empire sympathizing simps circle jerk around denying basic history and current events in Ukraine. Possibly as a result of this survey, CIA/State department invested so much in NGOs to “westernize” youth with agenda of delivering them to the small diehard nazi cohort as rulership class after 2014 black flag operations and coup.
I wonder how much of the nostalgia is that the 60s and 70s provided an easier job environment without pressure for new skills. USA would probably also have a preferred nostalgia for that period, despite draft and Israel related submission pushback. Throughout first and second world, a steep rise in inequality and oligarchy resulted from 1980s afterwards, though Yeltsin corruption was especially bad.
In terms of annecdotes, I do know Yougoslavian friends whose parents could afford cars and summer cottages. But then affording a car in western europe was also easy, and homes in the west, fairly easy. I would say the very strong corruption in elections and media mind control serving oligarchy and empire was the defining moment in manufacturing modern misery.
I’m not really surprised by Ukraine, over 70% voted in the referendum against dissolution of USSR and thus also against independence of Ukraine. Since then they had 4 US coups to keep them in line.
Couldn’t believe that 77% percent of Czechs said that they are worse off now. And in the source you provide there’s only that 23% think it’s better now. I really don’t know what to say to everyone praising the USSR after hearing stories from my whole family about how so grateful they are that it’s over.
Am Czech, the average person is genuinely better off today (at least materially) than during communism. You would need to wait years to get a telephone, car, or TV
This image is silly though because you could just replace the text with “the sky is blue” or any other fact to make the opposite point. Like if you’re going to make a political cartoon the cartoon itself needs to be making some point. Don’t be like that seppo loon that just writes labels on everything.
Something like this is much funnier as the image and text play together.
Funny enough, in the essay Adam Smith’s Socialism, the author analyzes what Smith’s prediction of Socialism would look like had he been a Socialist, with his own analysis of Capitalism. Kind of a “what if?” Scenario.
Nice, I’m gonna read that soon. I do know that Adam Smith explicitly agreed with the labor theory of value, which all the capitalist economics schools reject despite venerating him.
It’s a fun article! Said writer also has cool articles like analyzing Quantum Mechanics alongside Dialectical Materialism, and their articles were very helpful in my coming to understand Socialism in general. Probably going to revisit their article on Fiat currency now that I am working my way through Capital over on Hexbear.
This. Also, whatever is going on in China and Russia is NOT “communism.” Those are oligarchies, where a small number of billionaires use the news media to keep the lower and middle classes fighting with each other, while the rich keep running off with all the f*cking money.
Half right, the Russian Federation abandoned Socialism with the dissolution of the USSR. The PRC hasn’t achieved Communism yet, but have a Socialist Market Economy and are run along Marxist-Leninist analysis. It isn’t correct to call the PRC an “oligarchy” either, China Has Billionaires but they are subservient to the CPC, which has over 96 million people and functions in a “top down, from the bottom up” fashion. Those at the top of the CPC, in the NPC, are largely educated non-bourgeoisie.
It’s interesting how many people here have succumbed to Amerikkkas propaganda machine.
I was on TikTok and went to redNOTE and just signed up as a way to say fuck you to the government. Got bored and checked it out and there lives are incredibly more impressive and full of life. Full of family and love and compassion.
If “communism” is so evil, why do they have no
slavesprisonlaborlike the Amerikkkas? Free healthcare? Little to no homelessness? Accepting of others who are different?We can’t have that communism in this country! That’s not Amerikkka enough! We need to make people afraid to live as we the people are the capatilisms resources. We are not the people.
Same rules as Instagram apply. Don’t compare your life to someone’s highlight reel.
With that said, I’m happy to be a part of what may be the greatest cultural exchange of the generation.
Have you thought about a command economy? Centrally run by a Highmaster? Who will no doubt create the prestigious title “Fuel Survey Underlord of the Wilderness Planet at the end of the Noctolium Solar Chain”.
a relevant passage from This Soviet World by Anna Louise Strong
Here’s an audiobook of This Soviet World for anyone who wants. Its also on torrents.
Removed by mod
congratulations you just posted the single dumbest thing ever posted on this site
here’s your reward
Communism has a 100% success rate.
What’s the soviet union then?
Removed by mod
The problem with the Soviet Union was the lies and propaganda they tried to push was used against them when they got caught.
You can’t have a government for the commoners when you silence them to the point that the commoners no longer believe the government is for them.
Removed by mod
Awful?
Communism has the same problem as every other system
People
Communism has the same problem as every other system
la cia
I’m 13 and this is deep
Mao actually said deeper stuff
EDIT: Many communists claim there is no record of this. They are correct - there is no official record of this … in China.
Mao pointing out the depravity of the Yankeestan and willingness to use nuclear weapons against other nations isn’t the own that you seem to think it is. By the way, I love how you follow me around like a court jester. It’s adorable.
Maybe first agree that he actually said it. Copes on why he said so can wait.
Very good! Can you make a crayon drawing of that?
Polit buro prefers pencil colours.
Defeating socialism by being plain old anti-social. lol.
Sure, people will have disagreements in Communism. Do you think that holds back Communism to a greater degree than Capitalism?
Should I make one of these that has all the Auth left countries telling the free thinker that “this is the only way to communism”?
Except countries that have existing socialism aren’t doing that. In fact, China very openly says that their system is a product of their history, culture, and material conditions. Unlike western libs, they’re not trying to franchise and remodel other countries into their own image. Neither does Cuba or Vietnam last I checked.
This is also why the CPC names their system Socialism with Chinese Characteristics. They want a multi-polar world, where hundreds of different socialisms can bloom on their own without fear of intervention, and especially being attacked by the US:
“Socialism with [insert any country here] characteristics”
Can you imagine a Cuba without the embargo?
Would be pretty wonderful, they could be as far along as the PRC, but in the western hemisphere. The US could never tolerate the threat of a good example so close to its borders though of course.
They already have to deal with Cuban healthcare and doctors.
China is only looking for military solutions to expsnd their systen where it is not a product of history : Taiwan, Philippines, bits of India, entire Tibet … scratch that. Tibet is already a product of Chinese “… history, culture, and material conditions.”
🤡
Just one more Paris Commune bro. It’ll work this time I swear.
Hot take: I do think Communard sounds cooler than Communist, so the Paris Commune does have that going for them at least.
I think there’s a bit of a disconnect here. The Anarchist conception of Communism and the Marxist conception are similar sounding, but fundamentally entirely different. This is due to Anarchists seeking to abolish hierarchy, while Marxists seek to abolish class. What does that look like?
For Anarchists, this path generally takes the form of a horizontalist network of communes, or other such unit. Communes have equal ownership within themselves, and trade with other communes via systems of Mutual Aid. The general Marxist critique is that this turns everyone into Petite Bourgeoisie, all interested in the success of their own commune over the entire system the way a Capitalist is more interested in their own profits than those in their supply chain, even if they depend on each other. This can lead to inefficiency and a resurgence of Capitalism.
For Marxists, this path takes the form of collectivizing all industry into full public ownership and planning in a global republic. This requires administration, government, etc, though many of these functions become less necessary when moving beyond class society. The Anarchist critique is that this retains hierarchy.
So, in a way, Marxism is the only path to what Marxists describe as Communism, and is absolutely not a path to Anarchism.
Communism is bad for a myriad of reasons, but distributism is all of the good things about communism without the bad.
Oh I can just say words too
Do you trust any government?
Imagine Donald Trump becomes communist and seizes the means of production and gathers all of the wealth America has that will be owned solely by the government he’s running. Do you really trust that he would have your best interest at heart or would you be concerned that he’d exploit us plebs?
Distributism isn’t flawless, but a million miles better than communism.
Maybe you should learn what communism actually is before trying to come up with better systems than it
Please explain to us what you think communism is.
That’s not Communism, though, and certainly isn’t how any Communists support achieving it even if it was.
What’s your reasoning for being against Communism, and for distributism?
Communism is actually bad
Look a free thinker
Live the meme, free thinker.
Why?
It’s a great idea that simply doesn’t work in practice
Why?
Ever hear of the prisoner’s dilemma?
Name dropping a game theory hypothetical is not an argument.
You’re right, it’s not an argument. But it’s a perfectly sufficient reply to a one-word question that doesn’t properly provide an argument of its own.
Your original comment only garnered a one word question because you were too vague.
“Hey friend, can you share some of your potato chips?”
“Sorry, prisoners dilemma, can’t.”
Yep, you got it!
This isn’t your sleeping place! It belongs to the community. And share your food. Why do you think it’s just yours?
Real talk, the difference is property. This doesn’t exist in pure communism. Can you live without property?
Are you ignorant or are you trolling?
More like a historical joke. Never heard of the background from communism or where the wording came from? Commune, common?
don’t quit your day job
i was just kidding guys!!
Personal property is fine in Communism, the entire reason Communists want to collectivize industry and production is so that it can be done along a common plan to satisfy use, not for profit and hoarding wealth. Communists don’t want to take your toothbrush.
It doesn’t work in practice when capitalist countries routinely snuff it out. You’re correct, but not for a good reason.
cool platitude bro
you’ve never actually thought about this at all have you?
What do you mean by that? I think it’s pretty evident by analyzing AES states that shifting the economy into a more collectivized and planned direction comes with numerous benefits. What do you mean when you say it “doesn’t work in practice?”
I mean that every post communist country is very poor now, like Ukraine or Cuba
The Cuban people are doing better now under Socialism than they were under the fascist slaver Batista. Their life expectancies grew dramatically, literacy rates among the best in the world from widespread illiteracy, and they have one of the world’s most progressive family codes despite massive embargo.
Ukraine is Capitalist, the fall of the Soviet Union resulted in 7 million excess deaths over the entire former USSR and obliterated what was once a stable economy. There were issues with the later Soviet Economy due to poor economic reforms, but other Socialist countries have learned from this, and these problems were correctable without nuking the economy.
Communism is actually badass.
Compared to what?
In what manner?
Removed by mod
Some ideas from communism have been copied into capitalism to make it seem less cruel.
Removed by mod
Don’t project your inability to reason onto other people it’s rude
I think trying to force communism is bad. Communism in my mind is inevitable, but we’re no there yet. Only when human labor is worthless and capitalism crumbles under its own weight will communism finally be viable and good.
