Criteria: I’m looking for instances that are defed’ with the Big 3 tankies (lemmygrad, lemmy.ml, and hexbear). I have no interest in trying to persuade my friends to create an acc and set up instance blocks before diving in, or dealing with the feedback when they run into the tankie brigade.

Edit: lemmy.cafe and infosec.pub seem to fit. I also find it really interesting just how many of the replies totally ignored my stated criteria.

  • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
    41·
    4 days ago

    Thanks for the really detailed response!

    1. Yeah, I noticed the missing thumbnails and I agree it is cause for concern.
    2. The dubvee admin has been mentioned several times in !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com as a PTB, banning anybody who downvotes him. Not the best situation to expose newcomers to either.
    3. I can try that out. The single point of failure and long registration time looks like a concern.

    Do you have any opinion about infosec.pub which somebody else recommended?

    • OpenStars@piefed.socialEnglish
      2·
      4 days ago

      About Admiral Patrick: really? I had not heard that. That would be horrible if true I agree, but is it? What I did hear is that he preemptively bans people before they comment at all, based on their past history. There is one troll in particular that he mentioned banning despite how they kept making alts (I dunno exactly who, just the situation), and that seems fine to me (assuming the situation was as described). However, every single person that I ask for details refuses to provide any. I did hear indirectly one reason offered: “syncing instance bans to community bans”, which I don’t know what it means but also seems likely to not be nefarious?

      Speaking of, I read through !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com fairly regularly but haven’t seen anything at all for him like that - do you happen to recall any further details that you could search for and send me a link? Searching for like dubvee or admiral or ptz all returns zero hits.

      I did see this post in another community: Admin log from DubVee, with text body:

      This is from the same instance that randomly bans people from being too “extremist” who have never interacted with it’s communities.

      So people seem to be complaining about him banning extremists / tankies, although in the context of this post seems to be presented as a positive “feature”? Seriously though, if somehow the community at yepowertrippingbastards has voted him as a PTB - which again, I can’t find that by searching - please do let me know? A key point there is transparency: if he says one thing but then does another then that’s a PTB, but the instance seems very clear about what’s going on, with text “Offering a safe, chill environment for a better, nicer Lemmyverse.” Essentially it’s a mini-Beehaw, which he also cites as his model.

      So if someone doesn’t like it then they don’t need to join, problem solved:-). Other than the Dubvee.Meta community, I am aware of no other communities located on that instance, so unlike Lemmy.ml, it’s not like he’s holding any users or content hostage there - it’s entirely up to the locals there if they want that kind of experience or not, being taken care of by such an admin as would keep away what he deems as trolls.

      I don’t know much about infosec.pub, beyond what is said here: https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list. It is the 18th largest instance iirc, based in Germany, very high uptime, its sidebar has next to no information about it, and it’s fairly small with only 2 admins and ~4k monthly active users. I can add though: I think they must have only recently defederated from Lemmy.ml bc Blaze and I checked all the top 20 at some point. I see no discussion about it in !infosecpub@infosec.pub. A local search also shows nothing. I wonder if most of the uses there even realize that, and notably I wonder if it could be temporary, due to the server sync issues with it a month ago (see here). If so, then joining this themed instance specifically for that temporary condition may lead to regrets…

        • OpenStars@piefed.socialEnglish
          2·
          4 days ago

          Thank you - I just found that after writing all that out:-).

          I just commented over there too, saying:

          There’s a huge difference between someone “doing precisely what they said they would do in advance” vs. a “Power-Tripping Bastard”, imho.

          And my reasoning is that he outright says in advance that that is precisely what he will do?:

          As an instance, we’re pretty heavily moderated in order to maintain a welcoming atmosphere that fosters civil discussion. We don’t “tone police” everything, but we do expect users, local and remote, to behave themselves and act in a rational, civilized manner. Those who cannot, local or federated, are quickly shown the door.

          So it’s not 100% a bad thing, nor is it a wonderful thing either for people’s modlogs to be contaminated with a preemptive ban for a community that they have never heard of. He definitely seems to be trippin, but like, not maliciously, if that makes sense? Rather, like Beehaw, he seems to be attempting to make use of rather inadequate tools to do a job, and not caring so much how others interpret his actions.

          One thing that is HUGE for me: let’s say that you don’t want an abortion. Okay then, so don’t get one? Something that affects purely oneself should be a decision made purely by themselves? To the extent that he is making a decision that affects solely his instance, he is entirely justified in doing so. Except that’s not 100% what is happening: there is a modlog entry that gets made. It’s tiny, it’s trivial, but it does involve the other party. Hence he gets some flak for that, and that’s fair.

          But tbf, let’s examine the other side to that story: have you see the front page of Lemmy lately? Half the posts call for murder, if not outright in the title, then at least in the comment section?! I get it, the recipient was a bad guy, but let’s not mince words: vigilante justice will not end well. Imagine a guy walking home after finally getting his first month’s pay, except they delayed his first paycheck so he is walking home with $1000 dollars from his first two months paycheck in his pocket. If someone kills him and takes the money b/c “he’s rich” - never mind his home, his family, the medicine that his sick kid needs - how is that justified? I’m saying: who gets to decide who “deserves” this style of “justice” or not? The Russian bot farms posting on Lemmy? The people who hear it and genuinely believe & spread it around further?

          I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I am not against porn existing, but I am against it existing outside of bounds - it’s not friendly, when it appears without consent. Similarly, calls for murder shouldn’t be appearing in “memes” or “shitpost” communities that are made for fun. Like, I may be down for a serious discussion every now and then, but dammit can’t I have 5 fucking minutes to look just at puppy and cat videos?!? The answer, ofc, is no, b/c I am not offered that choice: my only choice is to “use Lemmy”, to “not use Lemmy”, or “to spend hours and hours and hours and hours configuring Lemmy to suit my needs”.

          Have you noticed how we have less content / posts than we used to? We have more “users” - I have had 4 alts in the last year, 3 of which I actively maintain so I am 3 of these “monthly active users” all on my lonesome. And Blaze is like upwards of 20 (with good reason, though that level is likely unusual). Conversely, look at communities such as !nathanwpyle@lemmy.world - it had ~4 posts per month routinely, but now has none in the last 2 months. Where did they go? Damn, I REALLY loved those comics too:-(. I don’t have an Instagram account but I see much more content - including related to December - at https://www.instagram.com/nathanwpylestrangeplanet/?hl=en, just not on Lemmy anymore?

          When we become known for being the Alt-Left, “Nazi fascist bar” that we are (advocating for extreme violent solutions = the most extreme form of leftist), mainstream people aren’t going to want to hang out here anymore. Admiral Patrick is one of the few that are fighting back. Now you are too, in even so much as asking for an instance that has defederated from the big 3 tankie instances (although imho it’s already too late for that: yes the “tankieness” is contained on those 3, however the extremism that so often goes along with that has spread to beyond those 3 instances - it’s fucking everywhere now), but he’s putting in some EFFORT to clean up this space.

          I am halfway thinking of joining dubvee.org tbh, if he’ll have me… sure his method contaminates the modlogs, but it’s something to try to stem the tide of toxicity and extremism? And that’s better than nothing, to at least be able to take a break from it all for a handful of minutes each day and just breathe? I am not against others being free to vent their thoughts, but my thoughts should matter too, at least to myself?

          I concede that there are no perfect solutions here.

          • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
            2·
            3 days ago

            I suppose it depends very much on what your definition of PTB is. Firstly, I’ll say this is based on the info in that post, and it may be one-sided since he didn’t defend himself.

            The fact that he declares his intentions does help, but IMO it’s a large overstep. Banning anybody who so much as downvotes you is going to ensure you have an absolute echo chamber very soon. Which I’m guessing is probably the point, since otherwise he could have gone the Beehaw way of disabling downvotes for his instance.

            Huh, I just checked the modlogs and yep, I’m banned from his instance. I suppose if you’re a user on his instance and unaware of what’s happening, you’ll just see the fediverse slowly shrink and shrink. I’m a reasonably prolific contributor, I’m fairly moderate, and if I’m getting banned for my views, so is a significant portion of the fediverse.

            calls for murder shouldn’t be appearing in “memes” or “shitpost” communities that are made for fun

            I agree with that. Comms should have full control over the type of content (including comments) they want appearing within them. But that’s not what’s happening with dubvee.

            I agree with you that we need more content. I’ve blocked most of the meme comms b/c they’re not my thing, and most of the remaining content falls into a very few lonely groups. Building niche comms is a lot of work.

            • OpenStars@piefed.socialEnglish
              1·
              3 days ago

              Banning anybody who so much as downvotes you

              But that’s not what he did? This was mentioned in the post as well: he is banning on a pattern of voting, regardless of who it is to. The admin of midwest.social was banning people that downvoted HIM specifically, but dubvee.org seems to be doing this regardless of whether the votes are directed at him or someone else.

              So like if a girl will only date boys taller than herself, that’s pretty shallow, but at least she’s up-front about her criteria?

              So I think the avoidance of the PTB label is bc the walk matches the talk. So not quite a CLM as in button mashing, but closer to that one it would seem as in someone using the Lemmy tools to try to accomplish something that perhaps something other than Lemmy might have worked better at (not sure what) - so “an imperfect solution to the problem at hand” situation rather than PTB?