Actually it’s pro Israel who don’t like contexts like zionists leaders admitting they want the whole land under the pretext that they has an kingdom 2000 years ago
Extreme zionist rhetoric is nothing compared to multiple Arab countries and terrorist groups saying they want to destroy Israel and then going to war multiple times in multiple different decades, and constantly fighting an insurgent war on multiple fronts for the better part of a century.
Only few people still want to completely destroy Israel most people want Israel out of the West bank and a completely free Gaza
The circonstances is different in 47. Why would people born in the land accept recent foreigners to create a state in their land? Especially when Israel first prime minister said this
after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine
It is not a coincidence that Gaza and West bank was occupied 20 years after the nekba
Israel first president
partition might be only a temporary arrangement for the next twenty to twenty-five years
67 war was not a pre-emptive war as Israel admission
The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.
I hope that you didn’t know already about tantura but if you didn’t. Go watch it, if you don’t change your stand on Israel self defence propaganda. There is no point in continuing this debate.
Only few people still want to completely destroy Israel
Yes since Isreal has made peace with a lot of its old enemies. But the people that still do are people on Isreals border.
The circumstances is different in 47. Why would people born in the land accept recent foreigners to create a state in their land? Especially when Israel first prime minister said this
I dont blame arabs for the first arab isreali war i think that Arabs were reasonably justified.
after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine. It is not a coincidence that Gaza and West bank was occupied 20 years after the nekba Israel first president
That quote doesn’t really indicate your point. From what i could find that quote was at a time when they had been offered a partition that wouldn’t even give them a majority Jewish state. Arabs at the time were very clear that they did not want any jewish state and my timeline might be a bit off but I think this was around the time when members of the Arab council were meeting with Hitler.
Its reasonable to me that some jews would see any deal as their only path to a legitimate state not knowing if another option was around the corner. In the context around that quote Ben Gurion talks about acquiring land through legitimate means and “other means” so its possible he might have wanted to expand through war later down the line but we will never know because Arabs decided to settle the dispute through war and ended up giving Isreal territorial expansion on a silver platter. Then did so again and again with no end to the fighting in sight.
I dont fault Arabs for pushing back against the jewish migration and I dont at all fault jewish people for migrating there.
67 war was not a pre-emptive war as Israel admission
No, I completely disagree with this. There is no way you can reasonably claim it wasnt a per-emptive war. Egypt removed UN troops and started massing troops on the border then closed the Suez Canal an act which they knew Isreal considered a declaration of war. Egypt then signs a defense pact with Jordan and Iraq and Egypt moves troops to Jordan. I don’t know about you but if I had history of surrounding nations attacking and saw they were removing neutral troops and massing their own troops on the borders, blockading shipping routes that they knew would case a war I would take that as a sign war is imminent.
Post 67 war is where I start to really fault Isreal and blame them for how things are today. They offered citizenship to people in some areas and even though most declined I believe they should have given that offer to every person in the newly occupied territory and then either expel everyone who declined and drawn new borders or absorb the new citizens into Isreal and give the land back to Egypt and Jordan. Occupying the land in some kind of grey zone is a terrible idea even at the time and is the reason things are so fucked to this day.
I hope that you didn’t know already about tantura but if you didn’t.
I didn’t actually know about this and I agree its fucked up but it does not personally change anything to me. Everything was on the line during that war and there were estimated to be up to 70 massacres committed during the war. It doesn’t strike me as one side being uniquely evil. Only one group of people being evil.
if you don’t change your stand on Israel self defence propaganda
Yea there is a lot of Isreali propaganda and its terrible but Isreal is (or was) a liberal democracy and because of that they argue, debate and acknowledge their history. I dont see Arabs doing any of that but maybe they do it just doesn’t get translated. The palestinan propaganda is insane to me the way they lie about events with no regard for being truthful reminds me of MAGA followers.
Not even most people who are on Israel border believe that. Everything Israel does in strategic rather than genuine attempt for piece. Zionists whole argument of taking Palestinians land was that it’s their ancestral land which used to encompass the West bank and Gaza not Egypt, Lebanon or syria. The whole point of making peace with those countries is to Isolate Palestine from the rest of the world.
The quote is very clear he said whole Palestine and where would Palestinian lives if Israel buy the rest of the land, your mental gymnastics isn’t working.
The original partition suggested to give 55% for Jews when they only owned 8% of the land so I don’t know why you believe it was unfair to zionists and why you think Arabs would should have accepted the partition plan and not counter zionists colonial intent. There was even some Arabs leaders who suggest a one state solution.
Arabs losing didn’t stop Israel for displacing Palestinians and destroying villages. Iqrith and Biram (1951). War is not an excuse to commit crimes like you are trying to do. Hamas atrocities happened in context of occupation that doesn’t justify Hamas action.
Israel leaders admit that the 67 was not pre_emptive so I don’t know why you don’t want to admit that.
I don’t know what is your motive, but your attempt to justify Israel actions isn’t convincing anybody who want to know the truth.
Actually it’s pro Israel who don’t like contexts like zionists leaders admitting they want the whole land under the pretext that they has an kingdom 2000 years ago
Extreme zionist rhetoric is nothing compared to multiple Arab countries and terrorist groups saying they want to destroy Israel and then going to war multiple times in multiple different decades, and constantly fighting an insurgent war on multiple fronts for the better part of a century.
Only few people still want to completely destroy Israel most people want Israel out of the West bank and a completely free Gaza
The circonstances is different in 47. Why would people born in the land accept recent foreigners to create a state in their land? Especially when Israel first prime minister said this
It is not a coincidence that Gaza and West bank was occupied 20 years after the nekba Israel first president
67 war was not a pre-emptive war as Israel admission
I hope that you didn’t know already about tantura but if you didn’t. Go watch it, if you don’t change your stand on Israel self defence propaganda. There is no point in continuing this debate.
Yes since Isreal has made peace with a lot of its old enemies. But the people that still do are people on Isreals border.
I dont blame arabs for the first arab isreali war i think that Arabs were reasonably justified.
That quote doesn’t really indicate your point. From what i could find that quote was at a time when they had been offered a partition that wouldn’t even give them a majority Jewish state. Arabs at the time were very clear that they did not want any jewish state and my timeline might be a bit off but I think this was around the time when members of the Arab council were meeting with Hitler.
Its reasonable to me that some jews would see any deal as their only path to a legitimate state not knowing if another option was around the corner. In the context around that quote Ben Gurion talks about acquiring land through legitimate means and “other means” so its possible he might have wanted to expand through war later down the line but we will never know because Arabs decided to settle the dispute through war and ended up giving Isreal territorial expansion on a silver platter. Then did so again and again with no end to the fighting in sight.
I dont fault Arabs for pushing back against the jewish migration and I dont at all fault jewish people for migrating there.
No, I completely disagree with this. There is no way you can reasonably claim it wasnt a per-emptive war. Egypt removed UN troops and started massing troops on the border then closed the Suez Canal an act which they knew Isreal considered a declaration of war. Egypt then signs a defense pact with Jordan and Iraq and Egypt moves troops to Jordan. I don’t know about you but if I had history of surrounding nations attacking and saw they were removing neutral troops and massing their own troops on the borders, blockading shipping routes that they knew would case a war I would take that as a sign war is imminent.
Post 67 war is where I start to really fault Isreal and blame them for how things are today. They offered citizenship to people in some areas and even though most declined I believe they should have given that offer to every person in the newly occupied territory and then either expel everyone who declined and drawn new borders or absorb the new citizens into Isreal and give the land back to Egypt and Jordan. Occupying the land in some kind of grey zone is a terrible idea even at the time and is the reason things are so fucked to this day.
I didn’t actually know about this and I agree its fucked up but it does not personally change anything to me. Everything was on the line during that war and there were estimated to be up to 70 massacres committed during the war. It doesn’t strike me as one side being uniquely evil. Only one group of people being evil.
Yea there is a lot of Isreali propaganda and its terrible but Isreal is (or was) a liberal democracy and because of that they argue, debate and acknowledge their history. I dont see Arabs doing any of that but maybe they do it just doesn’t get translated. The palestinan propaganda is insane to me the way they lie about events with no regard for being truthful reminds me of MAGA followers.
Not even most people who are on Israel border believe that. Everything Israel does in strategic rather than genuine attempt for piece. Zionists whole argument of taking Palestinians land was that it’s their ancestral land which used to encompass the West bank and Gaza not Egypt, Lebanon or syria. The whole point of making peace with those countries is to Isolate Palestine from the rest of the world.
The quote is very clear he said whole Palestine and where would Palestinian lives if Israel buy the rest of the land, your mental gymnastics isn’t working.
The original partition suggested to give 55% for Jews when they only owned 8% of the land so I don’t know why you believe it was unfair to zionists and why you think Arabs would should have accepted the partition plan and not counter zionists colonial intent. There was even some Arabs leaders who suggest a one state solution.
Arabs losing didn’t stop Israel for displacing Palestinians and destroying villages. Iqrith and Biram (1951). War is not an excuse to commit crimes like you are trying to do. Hamas atrocities happened in context of occupation that doesn’t justify Hamas action.
Israel leaders admit that the 67 was not pre_emptive so I don’t know why you don’t want to admit that.
I don’t know what is your motive, but your attempt to justify Israel actions isn’t convincing anybody who want to know the truth.